multiversallogs | "murder" sounds a bit fancy.

Entry tags:

"murder" sounds a bit fancy.

Who: Kate and Jason
What: a talk about morals, or possibly the lack thereof
Where: the Apache
When: late afternoon
Notes: this happens after Jason went to visit Steph and met Hermione, and also after he talked to Tim.
Warnings: vigilante philosophizing, moral ramifications, merciless rationalization

He doesn't think about it now, but he might later: Jason's actually really happy. Not the way you're supposed to be happy, maybe, but he's never put any stock in that. The thing is, he's busy and he has a purpose. His talk with Barbara went better than he could have imagined. Even Stephanie and Tim didn't go terribly. But it would be completely remiss to forget Stephanie's friend. He remembers the way she looked the night they killed Henry Jennings. In a lot of ways, he has no patience for that, no sympathy — the Militia are as bad as anybody he's ever killed before, and in certain aspects, worse.

However, he'd also seen how good she was. There's no lone rangering this shit, and she would be an asset, if he can convince her the cause is worthy. Maybe a part of him is still annoyed he never brought Mia around. Though he doubts this Kate is anything like Mia apart from their embrace of archery, it seems apt, in a slightly grim way, that he should be on his way to meet her at the Apache to make his case. This time, there will be 100% less kidnapping and blowing up of stuff. The context is completely different, and anyway, Stephanie would do her damnedest to kill him. If he can't convince her, he'll try his best to leave her in a better frame of mind. Refusing to kill is not necessarily problematic, in his mind. As long as she isn't going to pull a Batman on them, it's not a big deal.

Though Kate hadn't seen his face that night, he's wearing the same jacket, he moves roughly the same way. He glances around the bar for her as he heads towards a booth, where their conversation will likely go uninterrupted.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Personal feelings... Kate has a ton. It's what molded her into the person she is now. But discussing those secrets with a man she barely knows isn't going to happen, not right here or right now.

"I'm rather die myself saving somebody I'm out with. I'll put that on the planning table." Becoming the sacrificial lamb probably isn't what Jason wants to hear as an answer, but it's the best he's going to get from her.

It's not anything Jason expects, not even in the future. If you expect nothing, you can never be disappointed. And so, while he's not pleased, he isn't really disappointed either. This can go on the back burner.

"Not ideal, but acceptable for now." Barely, his voice says. "Whenever we have some alternate communications up and running, you and Stephanie can keep yourselves updated and update others with whatever you find. I'll let you know, or she will. If you're still working with your team, fine, but keep us to yourself unless you plan on making introductions."

It takes everything in Kate not to roll her eyes at his 'compromise'. It's not like she was searching for his approval, but at the same time she didn't want to let criminals run free. Rock and hard space here. Damn it.

"I don't want them involved anyway," Kate replies, shaking her head lightly. Especially Tommy. He would take far too well to the killing aspect of this ongoing war. At least with Billy and Teddy, she would have some people in her corner though involving them would still take a bit of work and they're still very much working on Tommy already. No need to add another battle to her plate.

"Are we done?" Her tone is not one of annoyance or boredom, but true curiosity. Is there anything more she should answer for him? Anything she should know about him?

Keeping Tommy out of this is probably for the best, even if Jason would love a speedster on their side. Then again, as soon as he met Tommy, he would probably change his mind.

"Unless you have any questions." Jason takes a drink, glancing briefly at the rest of the bar to make sure the people he's arranged to talk to aren't here yet. "I don't expect you to throw in with us just because some random guy invited you, but Stephanie can vouch for me." He can't help smiling a little at that, and it's not a very nice smile. 'Vouch' should have gone in quotation marks. "And while I'm not necessarily in charge, I am the one organizing this. For now."

Maybe somebody should introduce Pietro to Jason if he wants a speedster so bad. Actually, no, let's not. Pietro may just be as bad as his nephew.

She flops back into the cushioned booth seat, eyeing him carefully for a long moment. "Who are you?" Not that she wants to know who he is namewise, especially since he already told her, but Kate wants to know who he is where he and Steph are from, since she's assuming that's where they know each other from. What Kate really wants to know is what makes Jason Jason, what makes him a vigilante, what makes it so easy for him to kill without a second thought or guilt, what makes him tick.

He raises his eyebrows, but the question makes sense and is fair. The pause as he drinks again is as deliberate as the pause before, an I'm not answering this because I have to answer thing as much as it is selecting a way of presenting the information so it'll make sense. So much of who he is depends on contexts that don't exist here.

"Stephanie and I were associated with and trained by the same person, sort of. For a while. And at different times. I don't know what she's told you about herself, but we were both vigilantes working in Gotham, which is a shithole of a city and has a bunch of costumed psychopaths running around as well as all the regular scum you find in any shithole city. But it's my shithole city, so I kill them when I find them, and when more rise up in their place I kill those too."

Jason takes another drink. "And Gotham isn't as bad as here. Not by a long shot."

Gotham sounds like her own world, though New York is a little less of a shithole. And when he says Gotham isn't as bad as Baedal, that just leads Kate to another question.

"If it's not, then why kill? I see your point with here, though I disagree for reasons, but are there no cops in Gotham?" Maybe the cops can't be trusted or maybe the cops are the costumed psychopaths, but Kate won't know for sure unless she asks.

"Corrupt ones, though they're better than they used to be." This careless if technically accurate assessment of most of the GCPD encompasses years of struggle and reform, something Jason can respect in the sense that he doesn't have the patience or discipline to deal with it.

"And even when they're good, they can't really deal with the costumed crowd. Some of them are mentally ill, yeah, and maybe not wholly responsible for their actions, but while we try to store them in the nuthouse, they break out and kill, maim, and torture more people. That's bullshit. They need to be put down. And someone who isn't sick in the head, who's making decisions to kill or rape or sell drugs to kids? There are consequences. I'm just one of them."

He's been calm throughout this entire speech, but it's that learned, measured calmness that isn't completely real. It's just that he has better control now, can sit here and drink and look at Kate like a person discussing a book. He hasn't snapped in a long time, and it's because of what he's doing now. The possibility is still there, however, waiting in the perfect, careful steadiness with which he talks.

Something about his calmness disturbs Kate, aside from him being super calm around the topic at hand. It isn't cold, calculated calmness, but some kind she can't quite put her finger on. She'll sit down and figure it out herself later or just ask Steph for details once they get through the inevitable awkwardness that's been hanging between them since that night. Right now, Kate just pushes it to the side for later as she shifts in her seat.

"And the guilt?" What about that? Does he ever feel guilty? Has he ever?

Jason shakes his head at the question.

"They deserve it. Sometimes they deserve more. And don't ask me who am I to judge — there is no higher power, there's only what we can do for each other. I'll never feel guilty about killing these assholes. What I'm concerned about are the consequences I don't calculate right, or don't foresee at all. Kill a guy, maybe that leads to someone else's death, someone who didn't deserve it. Maybe it puts someone in deep shit. Whatever I do, it could change a lot of things, and I can't know about all of them. That I'll feel guilty about. But I'm not gonna let these shitbags roam free to rape and kill. And here we just can't afford to do anything else."

Now he leans in just a little, barely more than a slight shift in his posture, the incline of his head. His voice doesn't get any lower than it was already, to keep their conversation between them; as calm as he's stayed, Kate has stirred up some intense feelings about the situation, and now he speaks with little awareness for their surroundings, just him to her.

"It's gonna be like that here. There'll be reprisals for what we do, they will crack down on innocent people when we hit them. And I'll feel guilt for that. I'll remember every name. But it can't continue like this, it's got to change."

She wonders what would they say knowing that she voted the way she did even though she was once raped herself and her mother killed. They'd probably look at her funny and tell her to get over it because those people clearly didn't care about her so why should she care about them enough to let them live. They would be logically right, but still, there is something inside Kate that just stops short of taking that fork in the road. Maybe she'll never get past it. Maybe she will. The future cannot be seen right now.

"You think killing them, reducing their numbers will make them stop?" She's not being condescending, just curious. The militia can recruit more and more soldiers however they do to replace the ones who aren't around anymore. It sounds like an endless battle to her.

Jason would never say anything like that, though until it comes up, that will remain a moot point.

"No, that's not even vaguely feasible. If it were someone else would've already done it. Five hundred years this place has been around, and the Militia's been in place from the fucking beginning. We are far from the first to try this. We need to learn everything we can and that's all I'm willing to discuss in public."

What he says makes enough sense to pass by Kate. Enough for now, anyway.

Reaching for her device and slipping it back into her coat pocket, Kate feels they've discussed all they needed to for the moment. She keeps her stance and so does he, but there's a compromise there that she'll need to get used to. "I'll keep my eyes and ears open."

She slips out of the booth, but turns around to look at him with a slight grin. "And ask Steph about you."

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

"murder" sounds a bit fancy.

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject